This drives me crazy!!!!!!!

[STREAMLINER]

Although it doesn't happen often, it does happen.......A customer brings over a tank and two fenders for some high zoot bike he's building......He wants it painted black with Kandy green tribal flames and a some sort of girl painted on the rear fender.....The parts are all brand new and bare metal.....Those familiar know that unless they're genny Harley tin you better brush up on your bondo skills.....He's anxious to get the stuff back because once this is done, he can finish it and go riding......I tell him that it'll be a maximum of two weeks and probably sooner........{I always add a little time on just in case of any unforseen problems......If you get it done sooner, you look like a hero}

........Okay, here's the rub......I give him a price and he thinks for a few minutes and asks, "could you do it for $500.00 less?".......WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been through this drill before and ask him, "why would you want to {okay pc police, get ready} jew down the guy that was recommended to you by a bunch of satisfied clients doing the one thing that finally separates your bike from Joe Blow's down the street?"......"Well, i figured it would only be X amount"......Really?......Did you do the same to the company that sold you the frame?.....How bout the stroker motor?......Maybe those fancy billet wheels?......No?.......So why would you do it to me?.....How inspired am i gonna be knowing that i'm getting under-payed for the job?

Screw that......I held my ground and got the job anyway, {knew i would} but wondered if something should happen to his health, would he do the same to the doctor treating him

[zopi]

Yes. He would. I learn more about people every day...and pricing artwork is
one of those things that either they think they are getting a real bargain,
or that you ought to work for free and buy the paint for them..wierd..if you
undercharge them they can get as mad as if you overcharged them...status mindset i guess..

's long as I get paid to paint...I'll not worry over it..I just try to make the customer in front of me happy, and look ahead to the next..

[samhain]

hell no one wants to pay full price for anything it seems..lol.i had a person ask about the clint eastwood i posted on here a day or so ago,so i say...hmmm....ill take 60 bucks for it...silence.then they say what constitutes $60 for that.i simply say,do you work for lower wages than what you think your worth by the hour,they say no...end of argument.bottom line is we all need to make a living,and those who think we can magically pull this from our shorts needs a wake up call...let them try it and see the work involved.
eric

[STOUT]

Man do I feel your pain. Had a customer recently ask "Can you help me out a little?" when we were discusing the cost of the repair. I informed them that I had because I took off some repair time to keep the cost down. The next comment was "I hope I like it".

[DocCyber]

I always say...if your not prepared to say no i cant drop the price...you will be working for peanuts........i always have my own projects going on so when customers get tight..im still working......but that allows me to say....take it or leave it cause im real busy.

[Holeshotrob]

Had something like that a few months ago. Posted it in the bizness page under Legal Advice. Check it out. I learned a HUGE lesson. Don't EVER let someone dictate what you charge. Unless you are charging $5000 for a helmet, then you might want to rethink your pricing structure. Lol.

Anyhoo, Doc has the right idea, the busier they think you are the more apt they are to go with you. No one wants to eat at an empty restaurant, right?

[pyrodragon]

i'll eat at an empty restaurant. i'll get my food faster, and hopefully better service since there isn't anybody else. sorry had to put my twist in.

[SeanOzz]

i have this happen every night at the tattoo shop.

tonight i quoted a guy 400 bones and he acted all shocked about it, then made some cocky remarks about it being to much and so i raised the price to 500 and pointed to the door.

sometimes it's so nice working for yourself. :)

[Pippen]

When i owned my bodyshop in Ireland i had a few sheets printed of absolutely all the consumables i use in bodywork..... everything ( tack rags, spray-suit, bondo, primer, polish etc etc)
When the customer asked me to drop the price I would show him the list & ask him which of the items on it he would like me not to use. That always ended any further arguement...:lol:

[pyrodragon]

when they ask to drop the price, why not turn around and ask how much of the work are they willing to do in order to get that price drop.

[STREAMLINER]

when they ask to drop the price, why not turn around and ask how much of the work are they willing to do in order to get that price drop.

Usually i'll say "well, how much do you want to spend so i know how much to adjust my creativity"......The one thing i know is that if you're confident in your work, and if the customer comes via recommendation, you are in the drivers seat........Don't fall for these games.....Stick to your price or you will be known for lowering it for every person that comes down the pike

[pyrodragon]

so true streamliner

[STOUT]

Pyro, I understand your point about asking them how much they are willing to do, but that can backfire. I have guys all the time that reply after I give them a price, "how 'bout if I do all the bodywork, and you just spray it?" That's when I tell them I'll have to see it after they do the work, depending on how it's done, the price may go up, hehe.

[STOUT]

I've said this before on here, but here goes again. YOU TRAIN YOUR CUSTOMERS. When a customer leaves your shop with a deal or cut rate that's what they tell other potential customers about and that in turn is what they want when they come in. They don't come in to pay more for something someone else got cheaper. That's my opinion anyway. I'm still trying to dig myself out of that hole from several jobs I've done.

[monkey]

just thought i would jump in on this one. I had a guy ask what would be the charge to add hot rod flames to his dirt bike.....gave the guy the price and then he proceded to tell me that stickers would be cheaper. At that point i took out my example , ( I had my 4yr old son draw some hot rod flames) I keep this picture and a picture that i have done as a mock up example.
Show him my sons work and let him know this is the economy job, then show him my work and let him know that this is the quality job. Its drives the point home, needless to say he saw things my way. And hes much happier for it.


Monkey

[Mike K]

There are all kinds of ways to be "nice" about it but it's like this.
IF you want it done RIGHT, Here is the price, Otherwise take it down the road. I don't care about how cheap YOU want it done. I don't DO cheap work.
Fact is, I don't KNOW how to do cheap work.
MY name is on it cause the FIRST question that's asked is.

WHO painted it?

[Airbrush Instructor]

I'm new to this forum but not new to the custom paint world. My clients have usually talked to someone about my work before I see them. They have come to me because I do craftsmanship type quality, nothing less. My work is a part of me and I will not let it suffer because someone wants a cheap, hack job. There will always be some self appointed custom painters and airbrush artists that will be glad to hack out a job cheap by cutting corners with material and craftsmanship. Call me old fashion but you have to have pride and confidence in yourself first. If potential clients don't understand how time consuming quality jobs can be, I ask them to enrole in one of my airbrush classes, they quickly have a appriciation of the what we go through. There will always be the people that want intricate scenes on a helmet or bike and can't understand why you can't paint it for $50.00. You have to educate them in a non threatning manner so they will understand.
roger

[ksbkustom]

Pyro, I understand your point about asking them how much they are willing to do, but that can backfire. I have guys all the time that reply after I give them a price, "how 'bout if I do all the bodywork, and you just spray it?" That's when I tell them I'll have to see it after they do the work, depending on how it's done, the price may go up, hehe.
i know this isn't a custom paint scenario,but it is related(and funny)...my brother(who is a mechanic) had a customer ask him what he would charge to switch engines in his car on a weekend...cause the guy comes in from time to time to bs with us he thinks we're all buddies(actually we can't wait for him to leave)...he gives him a price of $300(already a discount rate)...dude asks "what if i help?"...my bro quickly replies $400!!!

[zopi]

when they ask to drop the price, why not turn around and ask how much of the work are they willing to do in order to get that price drop.
Bad idea..then you get tins that are heavily bondoed, badly sanded with the wrong grit and primed with friggin' rattle can enamel primer...uhhh..no thanks. :D

how much cheaper if I do the body work? is my least favorite question..

[Az Erik]

When i owned my bodyshop in Ireland i had a few sheets printed of absolutely all the consumables i use in bodywork..... everything ( tack rags, spray-suit, bondo, primer, polish etc etc)
When the customer asked me to drop the price I would show him the list & ask him which of the items on it he would like me not to use. That always ended any further arguement...:lol:

now THAT would shut down just about anyone', though I'd have to bust ya one and say not to use the spray suit :lol: it's not my health :eek:

[KewlKustomPaint]

I really hate painting cars that someone else has done the bodywork,
unless it is done by someone who knows what they are doing.
Case in point Guy wants me to paint his Nissan 240SX it has a ground effects kit and needs painted all over.I'm real busy at the time he wanted to do it and he had to wait,so he gets somebody to do the bodywork or
he did it himself.They molded the fiberglass bumbers to the fenders and
quarters along with molding the side skirts too.Car is all primed and he says
the Bodywork is done and maybe just needs some blocking to fine tune
it.I give him a price of $4k to block it down and Prime the car with good
2K primer and paint the car and do some graphics.I think to myself
this guy is getting a killer deal.cause i get $2500 for a straight paint
with no jambs and no bodywork,his i'm doing the door and hatch jambs.
I get the job and was thinking great,alittle blocking and some polly putty
here and there and be ready to prime.Wrong,start working on the car and it
has a piss coat of Lacquer primer and nothing was feather edged and the
bondo was done on top of the paint that was there and there is deep
scratches in the paint from sanding the bondo.This is a no no,you have to
feather out the scratches in the paint or you will have problems.Then i look
and the front bumper is cracking where they molded it together and
they didn't do it right so it has to be split apart and done right.Also most
all the body work that was done is wavy.So now if he wants it to look right
i tell him I have to do a bunch of bodywork to fix things and smooth it
out.I tell him right away what I found and and what needs to be done.
I got a deposit from him in the beginning and that was to buy all the
paint and materials for jsut to Prime,block and Paint it with about $500
towards my labor to get the thing started.Now i tell him I need more money
and need more materials,he asks how come i need more materials.
I tell him well I didn't bargain for all this bodywork and need the materials
to finish all the bodywork cause i used up what sandpaper and fillers i had
in stock,plus I am way over on the labor end now and have to pay my
bills like everyone else.He gave me another grand with not any problems,
but if he had waited for me to do the job from start to finish it would
have cost him less.I have to redo someone else's work and make it look
better or my paintjob will look like dog doo cause I slick them out.
It now cost him more then when i first looked at it I aint workin for free.

Morral of the story is it's not a good idea for them to help,cause in the long
run it ends up costing them more.

[STREAMLINER]

Here is what started this thread.....The guy just picked it up and left a stain in my driveway........

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1143/chopper0068np.jpghttp://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2989/chopper0084ro.jpghttp://img86.imageshack.us/img86/86/chopper0012tz.jpg

[HammerheadDrums]

That is absolutely gorgeous!

Jerry

[STOUT]

I agree. It's gorgeous work. Maybe you should have told him it turned out so well you need $500 more. That's top notch stuff, no negotiating necessary.

[ksbkustom]

I agree. It's gorgeous work. Maybe you should have told him it turned out so well you need $500 more. That's top notch stuff, no negotiating necessary.
my thoughts exactlly...thats tight son!!!!:tup:

[Craig Fraser]

I really dig the tribals. Very kewl.

Paint on

Fraser

[LukeD]

the tribal looks sick. i had a customer like that...not only was he trying to talk me down in price but he wanted the bike (tins, frame) done in less than a week. he wanted an extension welded onto the tank, all the tins were rough, all the fenders were uneven and had to be recut and filed, he wanted a plate welded into the headtube of the frame to make a gusset and on top of all that he wanted all the welds to be smoothed out on the frame. now getting to the painting, he wanted tribal flames in ghost chrome and a few different color blues as the base and pinstripe. apparently since he saw OCC get the bike painted overnite (tv magic) he thought it happens that way....that was the last time i ever let a customer have my cell phone #...big mistake. the customer would call AT LEAST 6 times a day till i started charging him $25 per call and $50 for every time he came to visit. :evilg: long story short, bike got done in a month, i killed myself on the price :mad: but he was happy with the results.