$80 an hour?

[cannonart.com]

I dont want to start a big controversial thread but in the recent questions about pricing I see everyone saying higher,higher,higher. I see that Yrr went with $80 an hour. The work she did is really nice and she deserves a good wage, so this thread is not about her..it just got me thinking about myself. I have been doing this work fulltime for a few years and do high quality work and have never gotten close to $80/hr. I work from home and have very little extra overhead other than what tax I pay at the end of the year. To me $40/hr seems like a great wage. If I was renting a full service shop with paintbooth I could see $80/hr as a shop rate. I bid each job as a set price and dont go hourly. Sometimes this works well, sometimes not. but I never seem to get more than $40/hr. I dont want to get any work by undercutting anyone else but I find it really hard to charge that much. Should I charge that much for the art and less for prep, clear, and finish work? Is this really the going rate and I need to go with the flow or risk hurting the industry and become "the cheap guy"???????

[kidd]

I bid each job as a set price and dont go hourly. Sometimes this works well, sometimes not.

I do the same. Some times I make $200 a hour, Some times I make $40 a hour, I think $40 is good I would not want to work for much less than $40.

But how fast you work has a big impact on how much you make.

[Fantom]

i price per job aswell but when some people ask what i would charge per hour i tell them $100. which really isn't that much when you look at all your expenses in creating a paint job. people ask me how i justify that and when i start listing off all my expenses they relaize it's not that bad. i've worked out my average usage per job of everything from shop rags, tack cloths, sandpaper, tape, equipment wear and tear to how much clear i'll need for standard harley parts and i believe it's more then fair. i work from home also with little added overhead aside from supplies but the bulk of that $100 is the customer paying for me specifically to paint his bike. i think it will also depend on the other painters in your area, where i am they are quite a few people doing custom paint but only a couple that are doing it good and thier prices reflect that so i believe the better you are the more you should be charging. i keep my pricing comparable to the other great painters in my area and don't worry about what the others are doing. people do say to me this guy will do it for cheaper but once they see my work it's usually an easy decision to spend the extra money. it's to the point now where people know they will be spending more money going to certain painters here but they also know the quality of work they will be getting for thier money will be superior aswell. it's all in building a reputation and it takes alot of time. after all that, i do have a flat rate i charge for flames etc. it's when i start using my airbrush that i charge more because people are now paying for a skill that took many years to develop.

[diablo]

thats pretty much whats going on in my town like i said in the other thread but i cant price my self out of the market here i keep try to get the other painter to up his stuff he's good enough to raise

[kidd]

thats pretty much whats going on in my town like i said in the other thread but i cant price my self out of the market here i keep try to get the other painter to up his stuff he's good enough to raise


I just rased my base prices. UC-35 is $30 more a gal. :confused:

[diablo]

I didn't name any names lol .. another subtle way to get you to raise your prices hahaha.

[dawnsunshinein]

Hey, that is way cool. Do you guys know each other? You should develop your friendship and help each other out! I know your young Kidd but your talent is up there with the older guys. Ya'll have a blessed night. Dawn

[diablo]

yeah we know each other kinda is actually kinda funny how we met ill let him tell that one if he wants .. lol.. we talk about a few things here and there

[kidd]

yeah we know each other kinda is actually kinda funny how we met ill let him tell that one if he wants .. lol.. we talk about a few things here and there
__________________

no prob bob:tup: I was calling the custom painters in town to see how my prices are and he had my number saved but he let me go on to ask how much a job whould cost and then says "can't you do that your sellf Andrew" :eek:

[diablo]

thats funny i dont care who youu are lol (larry the cable guy)

[kidd]

Hey, that is way cool. Do you guys know each other? You should develop your friendship and help each other out! I know your young Kidd but your talent is up there with the older guys. Ya'll have a blessed night. Dawn
Thank's for the kind words Dawn.




thats funny i dont care who youu are lol (larry the cable guy)


I think thay call this thread jacking hehehe

[Yrr]

I have been doing this work fulltime for a few years and do high quality work and have never gotten close to $80/hr. I work from home and have very little extra overhead other than what tax I pay at the end of the year. To me $40/hr seems like a great wage. If I was renting a full service shop with paintbooth I could see $80/hr as a shop rate. I bid each job as a set price and dont go hourly. Sometimes this works well, sometimes not. but I never seem to get more than $40/hr. I dont want to get any work by undercutting anyone else but I find it really hard to charge that much. Should I charge that much for the art and less for prep, clear, and finish work? Is this really the going rate and I need to go with the flow or risk hurting the industry and become "the cheap guy"???????

Ok I know you onlyused me as an exc and this was not in any way about what I charge, but you really cant compare Icelandic price to usa price, cos you see, a pack of sigarettes here in Iceland costs 10.00$
a can of coke costs 2.95, a bus fair costs 5.00$, a hot dog costs 3.00$... If you go to the moovies, a ticket for one costs over 15$... We dont use dollars, we use Icelandic krona's, and in 1.dollar, are about 60-70 kronas, depending on how strong the krona is, and that changes every now and then, some times it is cheap as 58 kronas to buy a dollar, but if things are bad, the price of a dollar can go up to 100 kronar... so my 80$ is never a 80$ if the dollar costs me over 80 kronas

[Yrr]

P.s.. Iceland is pretty much known for its high prises, thats understandable because we have to seek everything overseas, and tho we are a part of europe, we are surrounded by sea, so we cant drive anywhere but here in Iceland, like rest of europe, you can drive everywhere, from sweden, to norway, to danmark, to germany netherlands etc etc, but nit to Iceland, also the population is low, only about 300.000 in the whole country.
Its expensive for us to deliver goods to iceland, thats why everything is expensive. Also we are located very far off, as you can see on a world map, an island in the middle of nowhere at the north atlantic ocean, pretty lonely out here... we have volcanos and glaciers, no trees unless those we have bought from other countries and planted here.. were trying, but this country isnt suppose to be liveable... but still were here, paying high prises for everything, including paint and airbrush equipment,, for examble, for one single airbrush, iwata hp-c+, I pay shipping 30$, but the local toll cost is about 85-90$

[jmbkustoms]

I dont want to start a big controversial thread but in the recent questions about pricing I see everyone saying higher,higher,higher. I see that Yrr went with $80 an hour. The work she did is really nice and she deserves a good wage, so this thread is not about her..it just got me thinking about myself. I have been doing this work fulltime for a few years and do high quality work and have never gotten close to $80/hr. I work from home and have very little extra overhead other than what tax I pay at the end of the year. To me $40/hr seems like a great wage. If I was renting a full service shop with paintbooth I could see $80/hr as a shop rate. I bid each job as a set price and dont go hourly. Sometimes this works well, sometimes not. but I never seem to get more than $40/hr. I dont want to get any work by undercutting anyone else but I find it really hard to charge that much. Should I charge that much for the art and less for prep, clear, and finish work? Is this really the going rate and I need to go with the flow or risk hurting the industry and become "the cheap guy"???????

Your rates are very low. That is called "working for wages". Dont be afraid to charge what you are worth. I have seen your work and you should charge a rate that leaves you a chunk of change when you are done and not just some pocket change. :tup:

[Craig Fraser]

The problem with hourly wages, is that they are objective in nature. It assumes that every hour of every day, on every job is the same, and requires the same basic skill levels. For kustom painting, or any subjective industry, you cannot go by hourly. I charge by the job. It takes a while to get a feel for it, but it works best in the long run. In kustom painting charging by the hour rips off the client half the time, and yourself the other half. When a client demands an hourly rate, I just figure the amount I want to charge him, and devide it by the number of hours I estimate I will have in it. Then I break it down for him. I have made as much, or more then $1500 an hour, but I also have jobs that have paid minimum wage. That is life. Just try and make sure the higher priced ones happen more often,...hehehhh. Don't worry about charging too much on a single job. You can always justify a single expense. But when you throw out a new hourly that is higher then the local average for a kustom painter, then you do label yourself. You will be known as being expensive, not flexible, and less creative. Plus hourlies are very decieving, because there is no way of knowing if you are cheap, or expensive. You could charge a lot, and be done in an hour, or charge little, and take three weeks. Too much wiggle room, and leads towards many a client missunderstanding. (Sort of like lawyers, and their billing hours!) Just charge by the job. Be flexible, but be smart. Good luck.

Fraser

[SFX]

Ok I know you onlyused me as an exc and this was not in any way about what I charge, but you really cant compare Icelandic price to usa price[/B][/B][/COLOR]

Thats exactly right. Its the same with Australia, for example the amount we pay for materials such as HoK (especially the clears) is about a 3rd more than in the US, so i think its fair enough to charge more purely to cover the material costs. I think Fantom has it pretty well nailed with his pricing theory. I'd rather quote by the job rather than the hour.

[Holeshotrob]

I almost NEVER charge hourly. If the client wants to stand around and watch what I do, then I charge $100+/Hr. But I don't allow them to be in my shop watching me paint...ever!

I charge by the job and I find it works well for me. Just figure what you need for supplies and add what you think is fair for your skill level. I'm pretty picky, so I may spend 20 hrs on a job that should take only 15 hrs if I don't like how it's coming out. Like Fraser says, you may rip off the customer on some jobs, and you may get ripped off on some jobs. But no matter what, your good name on a good job is worth ALOT more than an hourly rate!

[eyesolator]

pretty long.

An interesting thread, the one word that is noticeably absent here is “Art”. I can’t speak to anything airbrush related but I do sell my segmented woodturnings at a local art gallery for what I would consider to be way too much money, but they sell. When I started to sell my work in this gallery the owner would inevitably ask me what I thought the piece was worth? I would typically respond, you tell me? I would say you know your clients and how much they will pay. These days I pretty much know what to price my work at. What’s interesting is I know when the gallery owner thinks my price is too high because she’ll ask how long did it take you to make this. My response is always I don’t know and we’ll settle on a price. I figure when people ask how long will it take, or did it take to do they are either curious, or in their mind they want to attach an hourly wage to your work. The latter is what I figure the galley owner is doing when she thinks I want too much for a piece, she doesn’t want to piss me off if it took a lot of time to make.

When your work is technically superior and it’s composition works you are and artist whether you want to be called one or not. Ultimately your ability to create airbrush “Art” and the current market will dictate your ability to price your work. I have seen work in her gallery that at best would have taken an hour to do selling for $2K! You might want to send your balking clients to the local art gallery and ask them to price some of the paintings there and ask them to figure out how long it took the artist to paint and remind them that they do sell. I not sure why sometimes? I did a bowl one time and I told the gallery owner what I thought the price should be. Oh no she said, it’s worth twice that, ok…… It sells right away. So I figure I‘ll start banging these things out! I tell her I’ll make another, I thought she was going to have a stroke! Oh no that was one of a kind! Hmmm, lesson learned. So if they are, remind your clients they are getting a one of a kind paint job.

A former student stopped by the shop this year to show me his bike. It was full of airbrushing that was technically very good but just didn’t make a lot of sense to me. Tiki’s, skeletons, lousy fire etc. When I asked him who painted it his chest puffed out and he named the local guy who’s work it highly touted. Your name means and awful lot. I’m hoping that watercolor in the gallery for $2k was painted by someone with a name!
My point in writing this is, while you in your mind have to or would like to make a certain dollar amount. Hourly rates are rarely mentioned when it comes to “art” and many of you are artists and some of you artists of the highest caliber. You may want to post a sign in your shop: “Cheap Skates Need Not Inquire!”. Want to see them squirm? Tell them the material cost and the labor cost. When they ask how much you charge an hour? Ask them how much do you think I should make an hour? I used to do this when I sub-contracted welding, interesting the responses you get. I usually just smiled and asked if the price was acceptable or not, an hourly rate was never discussed.

John

[SeanOzz]

i charge by the job.


what's that old saying???
fast, cheap, quality

choose two.

fast+cheap= low quality (this part of the saying i never did like)
cheap+quality= (long turn around)
fast+ quality= (high ass prices)


or something along those lines.

just look at thier shoes and watches and you can pretty much half the time judge if they are sincere when they say they are broke or not.

[kidd]

just look at thier shoes and watches and you can pretty much half the time judge if they are sincere when they say they are broke or not.

That's funny, most of my customers are army so I just look at the rank BUT my prices are the same if your a E-7 or a capton.

[chickwithagun]

I haven't gotten to the point of actually doing work for anyone yet as far as my own art goes...but my husband always charges by the job in our custom body shop. I think he charges too little for some of the jobs he does, but we have a very low overhead so he justifies it, for now...lol. But I have done other artwork...drawings and oil paintings, and Ive always been baffled when someone asks, "How much would you sell that for?" I have NO idea...lol

I had a few people ask me how much to airbrush a hood or something and my ususal response is a blank expression with a question mark over my head :confused: I'm sure when I start out actually getting paid for my work, I will probably undercut myself because I have no idea about how much to charge and how long a particular job will take me....LOL. I'm just beginning and really dont feel ready to even discuss it yet...

[cannonart.com]

Well, I'm glad I started this thread...was unsure at first but I've gained a lot of understanding and insight. I have never met another airbrush artist personally so I've never really known how others price and handle jobs and customers. Thank you all for sharing. I think I'll give myself a raise:tup:

[tom evans]

i charge by the job.


what's that old saying???
fast, cheap, quality

choose two.

fast+cheap= low quality (this part of the saying i never did like)
cheap+quality= (long turn around)
fast+ quality= (high ass prices)


or something along those lines.

just look at thier shoes and watches and you can pretty much half the time judge if they are sincere when they say they are broke or not.

a ozz how's it going, first time i've actually had time to check this forum
out. you and fraser said it exactly how i work, it's just in my area nobody ever seems to want pay what the work is worth wether it be art paint&body,
most customers really don't understand the work that goes into a complete job.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t193/sevsefx/

[88GT]

a ozz how's it going, first time i've actually had time to check this forum
out. you and fraser said it exactly how i work, it's just in my area nobody ever seems to want pay what the work is worth wether it be art paint&body,
most customers really don't understand the work that goes into a complete job.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t193/sevsefx/

For the most part that is true. But stick to yer guns I say. Dont let the people that think a complete can be done for $600 get a complete. Let them go waste someone elses time. I spend well over 600 in materials for a complete.

[TommyR]

people are paying for your specialty,,they cant go anyplace else for what YOU do,so if your a little better than the guy down the road youll be ok,there paying for the years of practice and your skills and alls your askin for is $80 an hour? there not just getting a plain paint job wich you can get at any body shop at $ 50 an hour,you can look at it as your selling a piece of art to the client ,then you name your price

[TommyR]

my average price is 3 k for a tank and 2 fenders,4 day job

[sik_kreations]

my average price is 3 k for a tank and 2 fenders,4 day job

is that bare metal to finish? or stock paint, scuff and shoot?

ya but i bet u knocked out a couple jobs starting out for around a grand or less when u first started to get ur work out. not to make an example out of ya, but i think you should maybe add that it to u X amount of time to get that much or X amount of cheaper jobs starting out to get to that point. face it people no one starts out at top dollar with no name.

[TommyR]

i charge those prices after 5 years,,yes i did lots of free jobs just to put my work on a bike,but as soon as you start building a name you build your prices to

[sik_kreations]

i charge those prices after 5 years,,yes i did lots of free jobs just to put my work on a bike,but as soon as you start building a name you build your prices to

isnt it bad that u practically have to do a free paint job just to get someone to let u paint there bike? lol. i bet some of those people now would pay the money.

[borrisburningbrush]

my customers pay whatever i ask for once they see my work and facility,people that aren't my customers and have never asked for a price assume that i'm to exspensive,it really angers me and i let them know it.

[Jon Olinger]

I have multiple rates.. For my customer I charge $65.00 per hour for airbrish work. For the IRS I charge 5.00 per hour for airbrish work. but.... if the customer is the IRS I chare 125.00 per hour for airbrish work.

[dawnsunshinein]

Good one Jon, but we gotta keep it our dirty little secret...

[SKULLAIRBRUSH]

Hows This Sound
Charge Your Rate ?
Charge Twice That If They Watch
Charge Three Times That Much If They Help

[Gutz]

Hows This Sound
Charge Your Rate ?
Charge Twice That If They Watch
Charge Three Times That Much If They Help

:lol: Boy you got that right!

[extremepaint]

no one brought it up but i heard another guy say it and it usually works well, to find your cost, estimate your daily worth, my self im a 22 year old in a small shop, not my own, i picked up my first brush when i was 13, when i was 16 i started charging 20 per rc body (simple colors about 7-10 hours of labor) so that works out to didly squat but trust me i dont use that price anymore! lol unless its a really good freind lol! anyway right now with a bout 2 years in the market im getting about 250-300 per day for airbrush work and and 150-200 if im doing prep work, remember if your doing prep work they are still using your time that could be spent airbrushing. but here's a flaw, i never work the typical 9 hour day, sometimes it only a couple hours in the shop a day and other times im there for what seems like all day and all night

pick a really absurd price and lower it just to the point wear you dont know if you feel guilty or not about charging so much

[YankeeMike]

I have not done very many 'paying' jobs yet...But when I'm asked 'How much would you charge for 'such and such', I usually answer like this.
Paint is VERY expensive. Color alone is over 30-40 bucks per quart...average. Clear is even higher than that. So on a , say, 2 color paint job... Tank...2 fenders...side covers...paint alone is going to be $200+. Now...I have 20+ actual hours in the painting and finish work. How much is YOUR time worth.
Since I'm new to the field I would charge minimum $1500 for base coat/clear coat and maybe ghost flames or something like that. I know I'm not making much money at that price. but it sounds fair enuff to get business.

[mayhem airbrush]

i agree with phantom, if you do it as a full time career as a lot of us are, you have to charge what it is worth to you to do the paint work. it also helps to weed out the people who are trying to get alot for a little money. if your work demands a high dollar amount, those who are serious and want your artwork will pay for it.

[sik_kreations]

I have not done very many 'paying' jobs yet...But when I'm asked 'How much would you charge for 'such and such', I usually answer like this.
Paint is VERY expensive. Color alone is over 30-40 bucks per quart...average. Clear is even higher than that. So on a , say, 2 color paint job... Tank...2 fenders...side covers...paint alone is going to be $200+. Now...I have 20+ actual hours in the painting and finish work. How much is YOUR time worth.
Since I'm new to the field I would charge minimum $1500 for base coat/clear coat and maybe ghost flames or something like that. I know I'm not making much money at that price. but it sounds fair enuff to get business.

if u dont have overhead,1500 for a single color is actually the higher end. most guys in my area will knock out a black or single color job in the 1000 range. when u do solid colors, there will always be more competition. more people can do quality single color jobs, the artwork is where u make the money. i was painting bikes here and there for a bike shop, and i pretty much left it, because there was another guy doing single color paint jobs for 500 bucks! 1 tank, 2 fenders.

alot of guys here think u can walk into the 100 an hour gigs, if u dont have the skill, or you arent that known, u cant and wont command those prices. i know because ive gone through it. my experiences, no one will pay for someone theyve never heard of, when the can go to the "known" shop and get the same price or a little more. when people start comming to u cuz they know your work, then you can start get the prices u want or think you deserve. if ur getting the money like the other shops, then ur work better be as good as the other shop or better. its like everything else, work hard and pay your dues.

[YankeeMike]

That is very true sik...I was saying a single color would be around 800$ or so...if I have to lay down any tape and do like flames or a graphic then I won't do it for less than $1500. Depends on how complex. I HAVE done some simple flames for a guy for $1200, and he walked away happy.Obviously the more complex or more colors is going to cost a bit more. I can't afford to give my time or supplies away. If I'm going to work for free I'd rather be painting my own stuff, ya know?

[Artistimo]

My local bodyshops and even the crappy painters at the in-house Harley shop nearby are charging 80 bucks an hour. I spend way more time than they do getting my stuff done right. No orange peel, etc. My chopper builder is very picky. But in order to get my business off the ground I have to rely on this builder to get a name for myself with some of the other builders in the area. So I have to do jobs for him that I know are not what they're worth. I have set prices with him and he is ALWAYS driving me up the wall trying to wiggle more out of it when I'm doing it for half what other painters would charge. What I really hate about it is they always want it back "tomorrow". I can't wait for the day I don't need to rely on their work anymore and I've met with another famous builder that gets regular magazine coverage and I'm going to start doing work for him very soon and I'm excited about that! What I REALLY don't like is doing Harley baggers because it's twice as much paint or more and more detail than my chopper work but I get less for the paintjob. It's all for the same builder so it won't always be that way but I have high overhead right now and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Many times I get a bagger and have to have the entire thing done in one day because the dumbass sold a bike that didn't exist yet two weeks prior over eBay and he just got the parts and bike the day I was given them. Believe me, you've never seen such focus and swearing. :)

[JackJumper]

Artismo - sounds like a bit of character building. Pressure - it can make or break you. Sounds like you earn every cent mate!!

Mase.

[Osh]

ARTISTIMO, please tell me what body shops in Milwaukee are charging $80.00 shop rate. I'd be willing to come up from the land of F.I.B's for that. Around here it's 46-48 per hour. 40% of 80 = $32 per booked hour in my pocket.Hell yeah!!!
If your getting pushed to do a bagger ( 12 seperate pieces without painted lowers) in one day I'd have to tell them to kiss my azzzzz. No freaken way.

[themosjohn]

wouldn't it be funny if you replied with how much do you make an hour?? for example, i had to get 5 stiches the other day. 350$ without insurance. it took about 15 minutes total. now if i could turn around and charge them 300$ per 15min. when i'm working on their car i'd love to see the expression. i know that there is a lot of education and expense in running a business such as a doctor's office... but gees.... totally not fair when looked at from that perspective. ok, i'm done whining

[Artistimo]

Oh I've been doing this for years. Sweating at a shit job all day long then working all night painting. At various points I've been homeless, lived in my truck, lived in various basements and even lived in the office of my other shop for 18 months. Right now I'm living in a friend's basement 1 or 2 days a week and I sleep on the couch in my office the rest of it.

All the bodyshops up here are expensive. But paint and materials is not cheap, either.

[designsbydave]

hey everybody how much should i charge for a motor cross helmut with skulls and flames it will look badass, you think 200.00 is too much or to less

[dawnsunshinein]

Too less...

[Asymetric]

I'm glad I found this thread! This was the very first question I had planned to post as a new member. Of course, I knew I had to at least try a search first. There is alot of great input in this one. I actually learned quite a bit. Nice!

[sik_kreations]

hey everybody how much should i charge for a motor cross helmut with skulls and flames it will look badass, you think 200.00 is too much or to less

depending on the detail and how much time u spend 300 t0 500. most guys in socal wont spend money on a helmet if ur not troylee, streightedje, platinum one, smith design, and others.